Pardon my ignorance, but why people keep trying Linux phones when you can develop on top of open source android version, like GrapheneOS? Linux desktop apps are not exactly secure.
Because the Android SDK is owned and controlled by Google. They’ve consistently made decisions to make it harder to stay out of their ecosystem (like the new “Integrity” API).
As consumers, we would vastly benefit from having another choice that isn’t controlled by one of the biggest tech companies in the world.
Google is slowly but consistently closing down the ecosystem (that should have been openv all the way through anyways).
Just like with the search engine, the early ad-free serve-everyone-equally stage is dead. Now the monopoly is about to monetise what it can & control all the things.
(Thighs might escalate a bit quicker since the “Googles android” is prob at it’s peak market share rn & the China alternatives are gonna steamroll even oven giants like Google and Apple to a significant extent.)
I can’t talk for others I’m personally interested in Linux phones (I have 2, PinePhone and PinePhone Pro) because I do not want to rely on Android because it’s lead, maintained and basically in practice owned by Google.
I would also much prefer to have “just” Linux because I know it better and because IMHO we reached a point, already few years ago, where “mobile” does not mean much anymore. “just” a computer with a battery is enough due to the power available.
IMHO the SteamDeck is the existence proof of that.
The “know it better” is, I think, a big argument, that’s imo often a bit overlooked. Android does not have that much “tinkers” as “proper” Linux has. For the average Gnome DE @ Ubuntu user, Android forks are fine. But if you’re the kind of person, who optimizes their Arch system with cool scripts from Github, you won’t get the same experience on LineageOS. I know Termux is a thing but that feels more like a workaround.
Edit: Had to reword the comment, because people thought I was talking about malware and supply chain attacks.
Edit2 to clarify my point: I think big downside of Android is that if you want to tinker with it, you basically have to be an android developer. With “proper” Linux the barrier to entry is smaller and the learning experience is more granular. Hence why we think “we know ‘proper’ Linux better”.
Android does not have that much “hackers” as “proper” Linux has
It’s hard for Android to have hackers precisely because Google and manufacturers are trying their best to prevent that. They do not allow rooting, they blocks features on rooted devices, etc. So they do their absolute best to keep on exercising control despite collaborating on open source software.
… so why are eg flatpak apps less secure than Android ones?
And Play & Apple stores are full of unchecked scam apps. They basically are solving this by securing the os more. Yet apps (even Instagram) can still take pics without your action. I assume they listed in on you too.
The app (& SDK) argument I think has more to do with user- and dev-base. Something that Microsoft failed at in the mobile market. So basically we need a quality/seamless way of running Android apps on Linux.
And since we can run Win games on Linux very nicely I think this wouldn’t be that much of an issue … Tho minimal industry support (eg banking apps) is still needed.
I worded my comment badly. I was not talking about supply chain attacks, rather the ability to tinker on “proper” Linux which you don’t get on Android.
we need a quality/seamless way of running Android apps on Linux
Like Waydroid? There was a thread recently on that and it seemed (even though not necessarily a representative sample) most people used it for… games, not “actual” applications. They were NOT used for banking apps also (at least I don’t remember anybody mentioning that) because I bet most people just go on their bank website for that.
The issue is that the banking app is often the only way to get 2 factor authentication. The other way is to use SMS but that can be hijacked by social engineering attacks so it cannot be considered secure.
Pardon my ignorance, but why people keep trying Linux phones when you can develop on top of open source android version, like GrapheneOS? Linux desktop apps are not exactly secure.
Because the Android SDK is owned and controlled by Google. They’ve consistently made decisions to make it harder to stay out of their ecosystem (like the new “Integrity” API).
As consumers, we would vastly benefit from having another choice that isn’t controlled by one of the biggest tech companies in the world.
Yes, this.
Google is slowly but consistently closing down the ecosystem (that should have been openv all the way through anyways).
Just like with the search engine, the early ad-free serve-everyone-equally stage is dead. Now the monopoly is about to monetise what it can & control all the things.
(Thighs might escalate a bit quicker since the “Googles android” is prob at it’s peak market share rn & the China alternatives are gonna steamroll even oven giants like Google and Apple to a significant extent.)
I can’t talk for others I’m personally interested in Linux phones (I have 2, PinePhone and PinePhone Pro) because I do not want to rely on Android because it’s lead, maintained and basically in practice owned by Google.
I would also much prefer to have “just” Linux because I know it better and because IMHO we reached a point, already few years ago, where “mobile” does not mean much anymore. “just” a computer with a battery is enough due to the power available.
IMHO the SteamDeck is the existence proof of that.
Can you please clarify?
The “know it better” is, I think, a big argument, that’s imo often a bit overlooked. Android does not have that much “tinkers” as “proper” Linux has. For the average Gnome DE @ Ubuntu user, Android forks are fine. But if you’re the kind of person, who optimizes their Arch system with cool scripts from Github, you won’t get the same experience on LineageOS. I know Termux is a thing but that feels more like a workaround.
Edit: Had to reword the comment, because people thought I was talking about malware and supply chain attacks.
Edit2 to clarify my point: I think big downside of Android is that if you want to tinker with it, you basically have to be an android developer. With “proper” Linux the barrier to entry is smaller and the learning experience is more granular. Hence why we think “we know ‘proper’ Linux better”.
It’s hard for Android to have hackers precisely because Google and manufacturers are trying their best to prevent that. They do not allow rooting, they blocks features on rooted devices, etc. So they do their absolute best to keep on exercising control despite collaborating on open source software.
… so why are eg flatpak apps less secure than Android ones?
And Play & Apple stores are full of unchecked scam apps. They basically are solving this by securing the os more. Yet apps (even Instagram) can still take pics without your action. I assume they listed in on you too.
The app (& SDK) argument I think has more to do with user- and dev-base. Something that Microsoft failed at in the mobile market. So basically we need a quality/seamless way of running Android apps on Linux.
And since we can run Win games on Linux very nicely I think this wouldn’t be that much of an issue … Tho minimal industry support (eg banking apps) is still needed.
I worded my comment badly. I was not talking about supply chain attacks, rather the ability to tinker on “proper” Linux which you don’t get on Android.
Like Waydroid? There was a thread recently on that and it seemed (even though not necessarily a representative sample) most people used it for… games, not “actual” applications. They were NOT used for banking apps also (at least I don’t remember anybody mentioning that) because I bet most people just go on their bank website for that.
The issue is that the banking app is often the only way to get 2 factor authentication. The other way is to use SMS but that can be hijacked by social engineering attacks so it cannot be considered secure.